Multi-engine time in Piper Seminole N311EF is $649 per hour wet at the retail rate, which is what you pay when you are building hours rather than training inside a course package. Two rated pilots flying together can legally share those hours under the safety-pilot rules, which brings the cost per logged hour to roughly $325 each.
This page is about accumulating multi-engine hours once you already hold the rating. If you are still building single-engine time, our time building in Los Angeles page covers the cheaper airplanes and the wider strategy. If you do not hold the rating yet, start with multi-engine rating requirements.
Who Actually Needs Multi-Engine Hours
Multi-engine time is expensive enough that it is worth being clear about why you are buying it. There are four honest reasons and a lot of noise around them.
The ATP Certificate
This is the hard requirement. 14 CFR 61.159(a) sets the aeronautical experience for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category and multiengine class rating: at least 1,500 hours total pilot time, including 500 hours of cross-country, 100 hours of night, 50 hours in the class of airplane for the rating sought, 75 hours of instrument time, and 250 hours as pilot in command or performing pilot in command duties as second in command.
That 50-hour figure is the one that catches pilots out. It is the only place in the regulations where multi-engine time is required by the hour, and it is not waived by anything. Pilots who reach 1,500 hours with fifteen hours of twin time discover it late and then buy 35 hours in a hurry at whatever the going rate is. Buying it slowly, over years, is much cheaper than buying it in a panic.
Charter And Airline Hiring
Operators set their own multi-engine minimums above the regulatory floor. 14 CFR 135.243 governs the pilot-in-command experience an operator may use under Part 135, but the number that actually gets you an interview is the one printed in the job posting, and it varies by operator and by aircraft. Read the posting; do not rely on rules of thumb from a forum.
Insurance
If you are buying into a twin, or joining a partnership that owns one, your underwriter will set an hours-in-type or hours-in-make-and-model figure before they will cover you as sole pilot. This is frequently a larger number than anything in Part 61, and it is not negotiable. Get the requirement in writing from the broker before you plan the training, because it determines how many hours you need and whether they must be dual.
Staying Genuinely Current
The least glamorous reason and the best one. Engine-out handling decays faster than any other flying skill because you never practice it accidentally. A twin flown three times a year is not a safer airplane than a single flown weekly. The legal minimum under 14 CFR 61.57(a) is three takeoffs and landings in the preceding 90 days before carrying passengers, and a flight review every 24 calendar months under 61.56. Neither of those requires you to have touched an engine-out drill in two years, which tells you how little the legal floor is worth here.
What It Costs
| Scenario | Rate | 50 hours |
|---|---|---|
| Seminole retail, wet, flown solo | $649 per hour | $32,450 |
| Seminole retail, shared with a safety pilot | Roughly $325 per hour each | Roughly $16,225 each |
| Seminole dual, with an instructor | $759 per hour | $37,950 |
| Seminole package rate, inside a course | $449 per hour | Not applicable outside a course |
For comparison, the same 50 hours in a Piper Warrior at the $269 retail rate is $13,450, and in a Cessna 162 Skycatcher it is the same $269. Twin time costs roughly two and a half times single time, which is the whole reason the safety-pilot arrangement below exists.
The Safety-Pilot Arrangement, Done Correctly
This is the single largest saving available in multi-engine time building, and it is also where pilots most often log time they are not entitled to. Here is what the regulations actually say.
14 CFR 91.109(c) provides that no person may operate a civil aircraft in simulated instrument flight unless the other control seat is occupied by a safety pilot who possesses at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. In a Seminole that means the safety pilot must hold at least a private pilot certificate with an airplane multi-engine land rating. A single-engine pilot cannot be your safety pilot in a twin. The safety pilot must also have adequate vision forward and to each side, or a competent observer must supplement their vision.
That requirement is what makes the arrangement work, because it means the safety pilot is a required crewmember for that flight.
- The pilot flying under the hood logs pilot in command time under 14 CFR 61.51(e)(1)(i) as sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which they are rated, and logs the time as simulated instrument time under 61.51(g).
- The safety pilot logs second in command time under 14 CFR 61.51(f), because more than one pilot is required under the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.
- Alternatively, if the two of you agree before the flight that the safety pilot is the acting pilot in command, the safety pilot may log pilot in command time under 61.51(e)(1)(iii) for that period, because that paragraph covers a pilot acting as pilot in command of an aircraft for which more than one pilot is required under the regulations under which the flight is conducted. Only one of you is the acting pilot in command at any time, and it has to be agreed in advance, not decided afterwards in the logbook.
What The Arrangement Does Not Let You Do
The hood has to be on. The safety pilot only becomes a required crewmember while the other pilot is in simulated instrument flight. Two pilots flying a twin around the pattern in visual conditions with nobody under the hood have one pilot logging time and one passenger, however they split the invoice. Logging time you did not earn is the kind of thing that surfaces at an airline records check years later, and it is not worth $325 an hour.
Two other practical points. Agree in the briefing, before you start the engines, who is acting pilot in command for each leg and write it down; swapping seats halfway through a flight is normal and perfectly legal, but only if both of you log the same version of events. And remember that the safety pilot is a required crewmember only for the portion of the flight flown under the hood, so a 2.0-hour flight with 1.4 under the hood produces 1.4 of loggable safety-pilot time, not 2.0.
A Realistic Plan For Fifty Hours
Nobody should buy 50 hours of twin time in one go. Here is how pilots who end up with the hours and a manageable bill actually get there.
Start the day you pass the checkride. The eight hours in your multi-engine rating course already count toward the 50, and so does the dual for any checkout. Beginning at eight rather than zero changes the shape of the problem.
Find a partner with the same problem. One current multi-engine rated pilot who also needs hours halves the cost of every flight you make and doubles the value of every hour, because you both log. Instructors and other students here know who is looking; ask at the desk.
Make every flight do two jobs. A 2.5-hour trip to Santa Barbara and back with the hood on for an hour each way produces multi-engine time, cross-country time toward the 500 that 61.159 requires, and simulated instrument time toward the 75, for both pilots. The same 2.5 hours flown in circles over the Valley produces one of those things for one pilot.
Take an instrument proficiency check in the twin. If you are due one anyway under 14 CFR 61.57(d), flying it in the Seminole converts a currency requirement you were going to pay for into multi-engine time. Our instrument proficiency check page explains what it covers.
Consider whether you should be paid instead. Forty-two remaining hours at $325 is roughly $13,650 with a partner, or $27,258 alone. A multi-engine instructor rating costs less than the second figure and turns those hours into income rather than expense. For anyone with a career plan, that arithmetic usually decides it.
Making The Hours Count Twice
An hour of twin time that also satisfies a cross-country, night or instrument requirement is worth considerably more than an hour of local airwork. Plan the flights.
- Cross-country. For the ATP cross-country requirement, plan flights with a landing at a point more than 50 nautical miles from the origin. From Van Nuys that opens up most of the state: Santa Barbara, Bakersfield, Paso Robles, San Diego, Palm Springs, Las Vegas. Our page on cross-country destinations from Van Nuys lists the usual runs.
- Night. The 100-hour night requirement is the one pilots leave until last. Van Nuys is open late and the Los Angeles basin at night is not a hardship posting.
- Instrument. Safety-pilot flights generate simulated instrument time by definition. File and fly real approaches where you can, and the same hour feeds three columns at once.
- Actual instrument. The coastal marine layer that frustrates VFR students is genuinely useful here.
Renting The Seminole
Time building in the Seminole is rental, not training, so you need a checkout before you take it without an instructor. Expect a ground session on the systems and performance charts, a flight covering normal operations, engine-out handling and single-engine approaches, and a currency check. Our aircraft checkout requirements page covers what a checkout involves across the fleet. There is one Seminole, so book early; it is also the airplane used for every multi-engine course, and course students have priority on the schedule.
Bring your logbook, certificate, medical and photo identification for the first flight. If your last twin time was more than six months ago, plan on flying the checkout with an instructor rather than treating it as a formality. Twin currency is not the same thing as twin proficiency, and the checkout exists to establish the second one.
Where The Simulator Fits
The Redbird MCX is an FAA-approved advanced aviation training device with single- and multi-engine profiles, at $200 an hour retail or $120 inside a package. It is not a way to buy cheap multi-engine hours for the ATP, and nobody should sell it to you as one. What it is good for is proficiency: engine failures at fifty feet, single-engine approaches to minimums, and systems drills that would be either unsafe or absurdly expensive in the airplane. An hour in the Redbird before a Seminole rental makes the Seminole hour better. Details are on our full-motion flight simulator page.
Related Reading
- Time building in Los Angeles — the single-engine strategy and the cost per hour across the fleet.
- Multi-engine rating requirements — what it takes to get the rating in the first place.
- Multi-engine instructor (MEI) rating — how to be paid to build twin time instead of buying it.
- Piper Seminole PA-44-180 — specifications, V-speeds and performance.
- The 1,500-hour rule and R-ATP — how the totals fit together.
- Aircraft rental at Van Nuys — rates, checkouts and booking.
Multi-Engine Time Building FAQ
How Many Multi-Engine Hours Do I Need For An ATP?
Fifty. 14 CFR 61.159(a) requires 50 hours in the class of airplane for the rating sought, so an ATP with an airplane multiengine class rating needs 50 hours of multi-engine airplane time within the 1,500-hour total.
What Does Multi-Engine Time Cost At Van Nuys?
Piper Seminole N311EF is $649 per hour wet at the retail rate for time building, or $449 per hour at the package rate inside a course. Dual instruction adds $110 per hour.
Can Two Pilots Split Multi-Engine Time?
Yes, under the safety-pilot rules. One pilot flies under the hood in simulated instrument flight and logs pilot in command as sole manipulator; the other acts as safety pilot and logs second in command under 14 CFR 61.51(f), or pilot in command under 61.51(e)(1)(iii) if they are the acting pilot in command by prior agreement.
Does My Safety Pilot Need A Multi-Engine Rating?
Yes. 14 CFR 91.109(c) requires the safety pilot to hold at least a private pilot certificate with category and class ratings appropriate to the aircraft being flown. In a Seminole that means airplane multi-engine land.
Can I Log Time As Safety Pilot If Nobody Is Under The Hood?
No. The safety pilot is only a required crewmember while the other pilot is in simulated instrument flight. Outside that, the second pilot is a passenger regardless of how the cost is split.
Do Simulator Hours Count As Multi-Engine Time?
Not toward the 50-hour multi-engine class requirement for the ATP. The Redbird MCX has multi-engine profiles and is excellent for proficiency and emergency drills, but treat it as training value rather than loggable class time.
Do I Need A Checkout To Rent The Seminole?
Yes. Expect a ground session on systems and performance, a flight covering engine-out handling and single-engine approaches, and a currency review. Bring your certificate, medical and logbook.
Is It Cheaper To Get An MEI Than To Buy The Hours?
Usually, if you want a career in aviation. A multi-engine instructor is paid to fly the twin rather than paying for it, and the 50 ATP hours accumulate as a by-product of the job.
Book The Seminole
There is one Seminole on this ramp and it is busy, so call ahead. To arrange a checkout, ask about the retail rate, or talk through whether an MEI would be a better investment than buying 50 hours outright, call (818) 330-1318 any day from 9 AM to 9 PM, or book a free consultation. If you have never flown a light twin, a discovery flight at $229 is the cheapest way to see the airport and meet the instructors. We are at 7900 Balboa Blvd, Van Nuys, CA 91406.